Interview: Unraveling with Toronto Punk Band PUP

Guitarist Steve of PUP talks self-deprecation, the business of music, and the band’s upcoming show at Stubb’s on March 3.

Written by C.S. Harper

Photos courtesy of Vanessa Heins

A punk band with emo inclinations, Toronto group PUP makes music that is both satirical and painfully real. Since their beginnings in 2010 as a four-piece titled Topanga, PUP has blossomed into a major player in pop punk with the release of their fourth album, THE UNRAVELING OF PUPTHEBAND. Afterglow sat down with guitarist Steve Sladkowski to talk more about the record and the band’s exciting approach to punk rock.

Afterglow: PUP stands for “pathetic use of potential,” which I found very humorous. So, in a few words, how would you describe PUP?

Steve: We've always bonded over a love of punk rock and high energy, loud, heavy music. But we've kind of always demanded more of ourselves in terms of the songwriting

and the live performance. We take the work that we do seriously, but we don't take ourselves too seriously. I think if people are listening to the band and are wondering what it sounds like live, it's sweaty and it's imperfect. And we want it to be real and raw. You know, we don't really play the tracks. We just kind of let the moment try and carry the performance rather than any sense of misguided perfection.

Your music juxtaposes a lot of joyful sounds, but there’s a lot of angsty lyrics, too. How do you kind of navigate these different emotions in your music, especially in your last album, THE UNRAVELING OF PUPTHEBAND?

Being able to juxtapose things is one of the most interesting things you can do with creative work. I think it allows for some levity, and for some buoyancy and joy to peek through in moments that could otherwise be, you know, extremely depressing or very heavy or, in our case, what we would consider as maybe too self-serious. And I think that that doesn't mean that we're not serious about what we do. But I do think it's important to have to cast an eye on how we're expressing things and wanting to make catharsis and joy a priority, even in moments where the subject matter, and some of the underlying thematic tones, are not necessarily joyful.

Compared to Morbid Stuff, you explore a heavier sound in THE UNRAVELING, but you also include a piano ballad and 808s, which you hadn't quite explored before. What was that process like of exploring new sounds for the band?

It was really fun. I think part of it was, obviously, we were at home during the pandemic for way longer than any of us expected. And that allowed us some opportunity, just to be working on music in a way that was a little bit different than we had worked in the past. In the past, we were on tour so much that we couldn't really spend a ton of time writing in consecutive blocks.  We would be home for maybe a week or two, and we would try and write a little bit. And most of the time, that just ended up being the four of us back in a room playing these new songs with guitars, bass, and drums. And then we would go back out on tour, and we would come home and we would try to write again like that.

So for [THE UNRAVELING],, it was a little bit easier to get in this rhythm, you know, months and months and months of just slowly working. And because of that, we were able to naturally sort of expand the sound.  [Drummer] Zack [Mykula] would be like, “I think it'd be kind of cool to put 808s on ‘Habits.’” We'd be like, “Alright, cool. Let's just go for it. Let's see what happens.” It was just sort of the moment allowing for it. It just becomes easier to say yes to things as you get more and more into this headspace of trying new things, which I think was really a good way for us to work on the fourth record.

With these new explorations came some interesting motifs, like the recurring theme of the four chords, which is a title of three songs on the record. So I'm curious, how did this theme come about?

I think it started as definitely kind of like an in-joke. I never would have thought that playing the guitar at a too loud volume would lead me to need to think more about corporate insurance. [laughs] You know what I mean? It just feels crazy. And so the Board of Directors joke kind of stemmed out of that, because anytime we needed to have a conversation about the band that didn't involve music, we just would joke that we were having a board meeting. So it would sort of expand out of that. And then I think the other thing too is that we were at home, and it was kind of a pandemic-driven thing. It did feel like we were doing this job and doing all this writing, and kind of circling around what I can maybe generously describe as like an absent center. Because as a band that isn't playing shows, l it's kind of a weird thing to even say you'd be in a band,  It's not like we're a solo pop act. A band like ours is meant to be performing in front of people. So to have that kind of, all of a sudden, like, you know, you pull the emergency brake It just felt like we were like a corporation with a website, [like] we should be like advertising on a podcast or something. [laughs] So yeah, I think some of that too was kind of just born out of the absurdity and frankly, some of the fear of that scenario of the past couple of years.

With that board of directors joke, it makes sense why y'all almost named the record The World’s Greatest Webstore. What made you choose THE UNRAVELING instead?

I think THE UNRAVELING was a little bit more reflective of our headspace as we continued to write and record the record. We stayed in the studio in Connecticut for six weeks, and by the end, I think some of our most deranged creative impulses were fully in control. We were making decisions, I think about the saxophone solo on “PUPTHEBAND Inc. Is Filing for Bankruptcy.” Even that decision to open the record with the piano ballad was made in the eleventh hour, while we were all so physically and mentally exhausted that we were just kind of making whatever decision felt like it made us laugh and just gave us some energy, some juice, so to speak. And it was very clear that our minds had unraveled — and that we had a record and it was great.  But it was not at all — in a good way — not at all what we thought was going to happen. We had no idea what to expect, and we still didn't get what we expected. And I think that was really cool in hindsight, now that I've had some time to reflect. It was such a fun and intense and demanding way to to work. 

That unraveling is even reflected in the album art, which is super intricate. Can you walk me through what the album art means and who made it?

Yeah, of course! So there's a guy, I believe from Louisville, Kentucky, who goes by the name Beefstrong — all one word. And a lot of the time with the album artwork that we've chosen, it's largely been, like, we find artists whose style and whose work we admire, and that we think reflects where the band is. And then we just send them the music, and the title of the record and kind of see what they come up with. So yeah, we're not too over the top in terms of control when album artwork is involved, we just want to collaborate and work with visual artists that we think are in a similar line, and a way of thinking that we are. Yeah, so Jordan’s work — Jordan Speer, I believe his name is — Jordan’s work was one of those happy finds.

What can fans expect for your upcoming show at Stubb’s on March 3?

First of all, it's gonna be great to be back in Stubb’s. We were there last year and it's one of those places that, as as someone who grew up watching Austin City Limits and really thinking of Austin as, rightfully, the titanic music city that it is, learning about Stubb’s and getting to know the crew at Stubb’s and see how passionate that venue’s respect for music is … We're so excited to be back. Yeah, the show’s awesome. I mean, Joyce Manor [is] great, and Pool Kids [are] great, so it's such a strong bill. And every band is a rock and roll band doing something interesting, so I expect it to be sweaty and fun and out of control. And yeah, just a good old time.

You can follow PUP on Instagram and Twitter, and stream their music on Spotify and Apple Music.

This interview has been minimally edited for clarity and length.